Red Pill

[sir-hermosa-amb]

So you just told me about red pill for the first time, and in my reading over the last hour, I really can’t find ANY similarities between our community here and the complete hate-spawn that is flushed out on that thread. Lol. Would you be able to elaborate so that I can get an idea of where you’re coming from?

[RichardP]

There are actually 3 different communities that I have encountered on Reddit. TheRedPill, marriedredpill, and RPChristians. The first is absolute trash, and is most likely the one that you encountered as it was the first I found as well. The second is better, but still has many of the selfish ideals of the first. But RPChristians is the one that really drew me in because of the scriptural basis. There is still an underlying philosophy of red pill with regards to the sexual dynamic between men and women but without the hate. My question is comparing what I have found specifically in the RPChristian reddit as compared to what I’ve seen here.

Many of the principles of leadership, respect, communication, and improvement seems to be very similar in both venues. What I’m having a harder time reconciling is that the RPC community seems to espouse the general idea that the man creates a mission, pursues that mission aggressively, and his character draws the woman to be his helper and companion. She serves him in a non D/s manner. He uses red pill sexual philosophy to make himself attractive and desirable to her. The sexual attraction and power comes from this “push/pull” kind function. It is all very unspoken and it just happens as a matter of the way the man carries and presents himself.

Here, I get a much stronger sense that instead of being unspoken, it is all very clearly communicated and understood. Instead of the dynamic being subtle, it is very overt, and in some cases, even formalized. This particular aspect runs counter to the RPC philosophy, and perhaps is just a matter of different strokes for different folks. But the “Captain and first officer” mindset seems to be the same, the level of respect and partnership seems to be similar, and the demonstrating love and caring for your partner also seems to be very similar.

So I guess, what it boils down to when I try to compare these two ideologies, I see RCP as unspoken and Dsm as spoken. I see more emphasis on the man in RPC, and more emphasis on the sub in Dsm. Perhaps I am over simplifying, or perhaps I simply don’t fully understand everything I am looking at yet.

[sir-hermosa-amb]

So for me, 2 things. First and foremost, my wife is first. Her needs and limits are sacrosanct and must be respected and cherished. There is no subtle “hidden” or “unspoken” psychology in me trying to get her to do what I want. If I want something, I tell her. If there is a direct reason why she cannot/will not do what I’ve asked, she’ll tell me that (either through a conversation, or her safewords) and let me know that I’ve screwed up somewhere and am not leadin where she needs me to be. Otherwise, she’ll do as I ask.

2ndly, my wife deserves the best. Why wouldn’t I portray and promote myself as the absolute best that I could be? Why wouldn’t I strive to better myself, and lead us in the best direction and in the best method I can?

This all boils down to clear open communication and trust. If I can’t talk to her, and tell her what I want and where we are going, there is a serious disconnect that needs to be addressed between us, before that disconnect becomes a source of divorce or disinterest.

the idea of “subtly” or quietly steering her where I want her to be, to be manipulative and dishonest. And as a strong Christian husband myself, this is not something that I would call biblical. You are misrepresenting your desires, misrepresenting your actions to coerce her in a direction that she has not given her full consent To follow you.

To me, my philosophy faith and worldview, that’s just Lying to my wife.

Build the foundation so strong that you can literally ask her ANYTHING. And then you can have a cogent, honest conversation on the topic. Find out her needs and desires vs that subject, and then as the leader of the marriage, make the step forward for both of you. To either try/do what you’re talking about, edit it to be in line with her needs/limits, or just throw that idea away and forget it, because it would not help/support/love her in the way she needs you desire to cherish your wife.

So much of this dynamic for me up to this point has been completely relearning my mindset in this regard. I have had so much frustration and jeealousy because of thoughts like “why won’t she just…” or “his sub does this, but my wife won’t…” etc.

My wife is unique. Perfect, precious and treasured and my Most Prized Possession. I would do anything for her. And completely understanding that, means that I have to respect that she truly IS unique. And will be unlike anyone else in her needs/limits. And trying to force her (subtly or not) into a hole shaped like another woman, is both wrong and disrespectful. And fully expected to fail.

Maybe someday we can adjust our dynamic because of us growing and our world views changing. Some things that she was hard NO to before, she loved and desires now. And some of those things completely surprise her as she thought she would never have or want those things. We grow, we change, and our dynamics must also to stay relevant.

And to have those changes, a clear goal, openly shared between two loving married partners, is the only way to accomplish them.

[sir-hermosa-amb]

So I took the time this evening on my break to read the RPChristian site as well.

Obviously in 45 minutes I could only browse, and not truly dig into the plethora of posts there.

However I come away feeling disgusted with these “gentlemen” being associated with me as a Christian and as a male/husband.

There is so so much whining, not owning your own mistakes, body-shaming, and down right lying happening.

People with legitimate questions about their past that they want to know if they should share with their partner being told to “shut your mouth about it, it’s not her business. That’s just between you and the lord” is not a place to start a basis of quality and healthy communication with your wife.

I personally can’t recommend the advice there, and would be happy to discuss/discourse my reasons with you if you feel like it’s something you want to talk about. And I’ll be happy to bring my scriptural ammunition with me 🙂

Again my personal belief is that a relationship with your wife is based on 4 pillars. Honesty, communication, trust and consistency.

And without full transparency where can you build that trust from? That communication? It is built on sand my friend. And when the rains Of struggle and real life pain and difficulty come down your foundation will be completely lacking.

[RichardP]

I greatly thank you for your response! As I’ve said, I am investigating, trying to learn and discern, and most fundamentally, asking God for guidance as I navigate all of this. I know that there is something in our future to reach out towards, but I am not yet clear what that is. I have some ideas, but before I get too far out in front of myself, and before I try to lead my wife, I want to be reasonably sure of where we are going. To hear your perspective is genuinely helpful, and your approach is enlightening. I will certainly incorporate this into my research as I strive to make improvements in our lives. Have a terrific rest of your weekend!

[sir-hermosa-amb]

Be FORWARNED:

In this post I refer multiple times to my Christian worldview and beliefs I understand that HusDom is a multicultural, multi-faith (or no faith), non-gender affiliated site

This post is not intended to offend, but to educate And if anyone here believes they may be offended regarding the following, please respectfully pass on reading this post

/end-disclaimer

Sorry I keep posting on this. Ive has a horrible shift in the emerge and want to vent. Lol.

Another point:

You said “when I try to compare these two ideologies, I see RCP as unspoken and Dsm as spoken. I see more emphasis on the man in RPC, and more emphasis on the sub in Dsm.”

I think this is the biggest difficulty I have with the whole red pill idealogy.

That because you are the leader you are inherently better/more qualified to lead your wife.

That because you are male, you’re entitled to her following you.

That because god deemed you the head of the marriage, you should be the focus of her (and your? Narcissism sic.?) adoration and trust.

When you think of true historical and biblical leaders, people who were charismatic, worthy and truly promoted their people and followers… did they set themselves on a pedestal? Did they separate themselves from their followers and show a pure and unreachable goal? “I’m better than you so follow me” type attitude? Do they push and pull and make their followers try to reach a goal that is far beyond their reach?

I would argue no.

A true leader is there with you. Always. In the trenches. Pulling nets. Sharing meals. Guiding you at your pace and reducing themselves to your level to truly share their knowledge and vision. Side by side, they lead you by the hand, or in lockstep. They don’t push you from behind, or run ahead of you and try to pull you along faster than you can reasonably go. True leaders find where you are at, and form a strategy to get you from there, to the goal, at a pace that you can handle.

And that’s not an easy task.

That means to be that leader you need to intimately know your followers. Their needs and capabilities and worldview. You have to adjust your language so that what you INTEND them to hear you say, is what they ACTUALLY hear. You have to know when to stop and help them up, and when to give them that extra tug along, because you know them so well that you can see that small goal, that one step, that they CAN accomplish, even if they don’t themselves believe they are capable.

A leader. A good and godly leader. At work, play, home and marriage, is right there with you. Empathetic, sympathetic, understanding and yet firm. With concrete goals and a vision for the future for all their followers.

Again, I’m falling on my Christian worldview here, and some folks on this site are of many different backgrounds. I look at Christ as my example. He understood his disciples. He knew them intimately. He took peter and put him back together after he was denied. He took Thomas’ hands and showed him the scars. He blinded and humbled Saul only to lift him up again. He went fishing with the boys, and let Mary wash his feet. He was there. With them. Every step.

But when he needed to step up he did not back down. Have you asked MrK how long it took to make his flogger from paracord? How long was Jesus sitting on the steps of that temple, weaving ropes into a lash, letting his truly righteous anger grow, before he stepped in and Physically drove out the people that were leading his followers astray.

Strong, patient, kind, firm, loving, always forgiving, long suffering, and righteous. That’s my goal sir. That’s my life goal in a nutshell. That’s what I need to live up to with every step.

And all of that tells me that to be a true leader, I put my wife first in all things. And not go at my speed, but lead and teach at hers.

I apologize for the 5am preaching. This topic truly compelled me to do my research and reach out to you.

Cheers.

S.H.

[husdom]

RichardP,

Thank you for helping me understand the other red pill dynamics and philosophy.

He uses red pill sexual philosophy to make himself attractive and desirable to her. The sexual attraction and power comes from this “push/pull” kind function. It is all very unspoken and it just happens as a matter of the way the man carries and presents himself.

Being a strong capable man, a gentleman, and a leader will help make him attractive to a woman. Being the type of leader that actually cares enough about those that are in his charge to discuss their desires, happiness, and feelings will make a man irresistible to a woman.

But the “Captain and first officer” mindset seems to be the same, the level of respect and partnership seems to be similar,

Imagine for a minute if the Captain and the copilot used an unspoken form of communication while flying your airplane. I will pause and allow that to sink in completely. Can you imagine for half a second that the Captian and the copilot weren’t clearly and concisely communicating at all times, about everything? That instead of being direct in their communication, he was going to rely on some sort of “push-pull function” and pray that what he says or does is properly interpreted by the copilot. Relationships are complicated enough when we do everything in our power to communicate properly. To leave our intimacy in the dark ( I am a man – she is a woman – she must be satisfied) is honestly irresponsible to me. And why would anyone suggest such a thing unless they feared the truth or possible rejection? Being a man is about growth and reaching our potential.

Proper communication is a basic fundamental of both Trust and Respect.

“I see more emphasis on the man in RPC”

A relationship, any relationship should have an emphasis on both partners. We frequently discuss the D/s circle within our community. The circle in essence is where both partners actually concentrate and unselfishly feed the other partner in the relationship. Try this and amazing things will happen for you.

Back to the Captian copilot scenario, imagine if you will the emphasis was all on the captain, and not any consideration was given to the rest of the crew.

That is how the aviation industry used to be prior to 1981 when United Flight 173 crashed and burned. Well not really… They ran out of fuel… no fire… Please take a minute here and google the accident. There is a solid lesson here on communication as it relates to the Captain and copilot. And the similarities would go forward into any relationship.

Would you respect and want to follow someone who put their emphasis on themselves? As you said earlier, different strokes for different folks but I wouldn’t.

A lack of communication is a lack of leadership.

It would be interesting to me if you were to go to the RPC site and ask them why they don’t want to communicate about intimacy with their spouse or partner. I can’t even begin to formulate a reason in my own mind.

When anyone suggests that the best course of action is to not openly discuss any topic or situation we should all see a red flag. What are they afraid of? Would be my first question. My second question would be what are they hiding? If you may ask a similar question then you would agree that communication is a pillar of trust and respect.

Best wishes

Mr. Fox

[RichardP]

I would like to thank you both for your responses. It has certainly helped me sort some things out in my own mind, and I know that this will be most helpful as I move forward from here.I won’t claim to completely understand everything about everything, but I believe that I can at least communicate my own thoughts on the matter. I know that there is a lot of stuff out there related to red pill that is garbage. It is a negative on the men’s side of things just like there is a negative on the women’s side of things in other circles. There is a happy medium somewhere in the middle, and that is where I am striving for.

In regards to red pill, I personally see it as the internal and personal work of the man, on the man. I think we can all agree that men need to be personally accountable and responsible for our physical body, our thoughts, and our emotions. If a man is not disciplined, is not secure in his thoughts and emotions, is not holding himself to a higher standard, then he is not going to be the best that he can be regardless of the external influences. For me, this is the work of the red pill. Bring the man to terms with the things that a man can control. By doing these things, he will improve himself, which in turn will make him a more attractive and more valuable man, not only to society in general, but also friends, loved ones, companions, and spouses.This work of course fits directly in line with my Christian values because Christ sets the standard by which I will strive for when holding myself accountable.

The principles that I see here on HusDom take effect either simultaneously, or after, the work of red pill. For me personally, after. Once I have my own self in order, once I am a capable and steady leader, and once I am someone that is worth following, then I will be in a position to effectively lead. At that point, I can lead my wife in a journey of submission. It simply wouldn’t work if I am not adequately capable of leading. In that case, we would simply be role playing, and that is not my intent.

So, for me, I intend to continue following along here, reading, absorbing, interacting, and internalizing the things that I see here while I do the same on the red pill side of things. I recognize that I still have several weaknesses that I need to address because, until I do, they create a dynamic where my walk does not match my talk. Once I successfully establish those principles in my every day life so that I can not only view myself, but also be seen by others, as a man worthy of leading my wife consistently, then we can entertain setting off in a new direction together. Until then, I just feel as if I am trying to fake it until I make it, and that is not something I am interested in doing.

In the near future, once I have repaired the cracks in our foundation, and restored strength and integrity to my marriage, then I can ask her to join me on a path that would require her to genuinely turn herself over to my care. If she objects, we are still in a better and stronger place, I am still a better and stronger person, and the world will be better for it all. And if she decides to submit and be led, then I will have the frame of mind and strength of character to do so in a way that actually provides the love, caring, and nurture that she requires without all the selfishness that I know would be present if I attempted this path today.

[jkctucker@gmail.com]

One thing that sometimes comes across both in the forums and chats is many of us have things together and we are always effective leaders. I can tell you this perception is false. We are all practitioners and just because we have weaknesses it does not mean we could not start this journey with our wife. In fact having her along with you in the journey is something that could help bring you closer together. It is like not wanting to go to the gym and work out until you are healthy. You do not go to the gym because you are healthy, but because you wish to become healthy. Associating with others who also are seeking the same thing will help you to stay on track or provide insight on course corrections.

Live Abundantly,

-Beastly