Hardened but Hoping

[x-kmunik8d]

Greetings Yeti, and welcome to husDOM. I am glad you have found us, and chosen to participate.

Im responding to you regarding your disdain for words, and your Yoza’s need for them. Im not going to try and tell you what you should do, but rather just talk a bit about some concepts that may help put your situation into better perspective.

From your words, I can sense that you are a well reasoned logical thinker, and that is therefore the reason im choosing this approach as a response to your inquiry.

I believe as men, that we have 4 values that we can bring to the table of life, including relationships, and two things to give.

The four internal values are Strength, Courage, Mastery and Honor. The two items to give are Time and Attention.

Strength and courage are built from within, through mastery of the mind. Mastery is that which we gain in life through trial and error, and Honor earned from how we conduct ourselves with others.

Time and attention is that which we have to give to ourselves and others. It is our gift we have to give to life. How we choose to use our time and attention completely defines who we are as men. We can use the time and attention productively, or trivially etc.

When you speak of Yoza’s need to hear your words, what she is seeking is your time and attention. She needs your affirmations to know that what she is doing is pleasing to you. I have written previously on why this is so. Please read the following article before continuing:

Consistency – a PRIMARY need of submissives.

The message in the article above is that your submissive needs your consistent time and attention to know that she is pleasing you. She looks to your words for validation that she is pleasing you. Your positive attention is comforting to her, and reassures her that she is pleasing you.

If you are not giving her your words, then what actions are you taking that “equally” delivers the time, attention, and validation that she is seeking?

Good communication is an invaluable tool in the foundation of great relationships, and words are the best way of communicating. Words are not cheap. Words backed by good character have REAL meaning. Only those with no honor cheapen words, but you must not let dishonorable people tarnish your perceived value of great communication.

Good luck on your journey.

Masterdym

[grizzledyeti]

Time-Time is a great word that we as humans have the misfortune of understanding and quantifying. The difficulty for me is that I find that most of my time is in reality not my own. It belongs to either work, the kids, the household needs, and the extra-curricular activities that we do as a family. When the day is done, there is little time for my Yoza and especially little for myself. I struggle making time for certain aspects of my life and others have suffered for it but I cannot change the past now.

The words and time that Yoza seeks are a very difficult for me to come by as I do not have an abundance of either. As I am typing this, I am slightly late to work from my work lunch break. Yoza is definitely worth the little trouble I get from work though. I understand that I lack the words to tell her or rather I lack the capacity to formulate what I really mean to say. I can really sound mean, uncaring, or just an outright douche when trying to search for the right words and phrases to verbalize how I feel. Yoza does it so effortlessly that she can steamroll me in a conversation and is looking for responses from me as I am just trying to catch up mentally from the beginning of a conversation. Getting steamrolled in the conversation does not help matters much either as I do not have the time to formulate a halfway articulate answer and end up sounding more like Sloth from the Goonies.

As for the actions…well I am a firm believer that actions speak louder than words. I try to do just about everything I can for Yoza and as best as I can but sometimes instead of actions she is looking for words. I need to find a better balance between actions versus words. My lack of time really inhibits my ability to complete all of the actions she deserves. For instance, for the past 2 and a half weeks I was rehabbing a camper for our family and her to use during the Relay for Life that she is on the board for and volunteers. I am at work by 7:20am, home around 6pm, and then right to work on the camper until about 11pm-midnight. Oh she appreciated the work and the effort it took but she was still looking for me to spend time with her and talk with her. It had me a little frustrated and feeling like I could not get ahead.

I guess in the end, it would really benefit me to initiate the conversation with an idea of what to say or give her words of affirmation that I have had time to edit mentally so that I do not come off like I just took a hard hit to the head.

How do you guys go about making time during the busy day?

How do you tell your sub that I love you but give me some time to think for a minute?

How do you make time for yourself so that you do not go insane? I feel guilty using time for myself while Yoza is looking for attention. She has a lot more “me” time than I do on a daily basis and I do not know that she understands that or can understand it. I have tried explaining it to her, but she does not understand it and seems to get offended that I don’t want to spend every waking moment with her.

How do you verbalize something that you want without offending your sub when it infuriates the sub and can put strain on the relationship?

I do not want to be similar to a boss in the workplace just barking orders…Yoza deserves better.

[husdom]

Gizzeld Yeti,

The words and time that Yoza seeks are a very difficult for me to come by as I do not have an abundance of either.

One’s time is arguably a person’s most valuable gift that they can bestow upon anyone. It is priceless really. That is why your submissive seeks your time and attention. It demonstrates to her that she is your priority. Consider for a minute the trailer that you are refurbishing, is it more important to you than your Yoza? Probably not, however it is higher on your priority list of things to do, or so it may seem to her that way. This is the irony for almost everyone that I know including myself, balancing all of the facets of a middle class working lifestyle and all of our relationships.

Since I have found a way to demonstrate to lk and my children that they were more important then all of the other things that I have to do in life I feel much better.

To address almost all of your questions toward the bottom of your reply, you will need to prioritize the things that are most important to you in life. And learn how to communicate better with the ones that are most important to you as well. Quit telling yourself that you don’t have time for them. You may have yourself believing it…

Best wishes,

Mr Fox

[husdom]

Grizzled Yeti,

I have learned a great deal since I have begun my personal journey into the D/s-M dynamic. I believe that one of the most valuable things that I have learned about communicating with my lk is that I don’t need to agree with her every word. I also don’t need to say things to her in order to please or feed her that I don’t feel are authentic or genuine.

What I have learned about communication is true whether it is communicating with a man or a woman, a Dominant or a submissive.

People like to be acknowledged and validated!

my Yoza needs constant affirmation and words of confirmation that she is doing the right thing.

What is the problem here? Is it that you don’t feel as though she is doing the right thing? Or that you just don’t want to give her affirmation that she is dong the right thing?

The constant affirmation really cheapens what I have said and it seems like my words don’t carry enough weight.

I may have felt the exact same way no too long ago. Realize that you are seeing it from only your perspective and not considering her perspective.

Does it cheapen it for her or does it feed her?

Again, in a relationship you need to consider the others person’s perspective. I have a reminder that pops up on my phone and my computer randomly, lk’s persecutive is her reality.

One small detail that I noticed as well is that you said that it seems like your words don’t carry enough weight… That to me could be something else altogether, two separate issues.

I would also say that I agree completely that the spoken word is a very small part of effective communication. Things such as body language and eye contact communicate much more of people’s true intentions. Consider what you are expressing when you are speaking to her as well. When yo do give her verbal affirmation what is your entire body truly expressing?

Best wishes,

Mr Fox

[grizzledyeti]

Mr Fox

When it comes to priorities I would have to assume that I am going to be making the final say in what our priorities should be within our relationship and our family. I gladly accept her input and since our new dynamic is starting to take hold we can actually have a conversation without either of us trying to “win”. I now know that she is really happy for me to at least take into consideration her thoughts and feelings and I am extremely happy that there is a finality to what has been decided, right or wrong. It has made our discussions MUCH more constructive and has seemed to get us both on the same track. I think that I am going to have to prioritize for the both of us on the large scale decisions in certain cases. The trailer is a good point. It was a HUGE priority for her to have it done in time for her volunteering so I made it an immediate and main priority of my home life. I should have set aside a day or two for us and the family besides going all out. I was working to make Yoza happy and I would be taking time away from the camper to make her happy too with my time and attention.

You had said “I also don’t need to say things to her in order to please or feed her that I don’t feel are authentic or genuine.” I feel the same. How did you discuss that with lk in order to let her know that? I really don’t want to crush Yoza. She puts on a tough exterior but she is oh so soft on the inside. I would think that because I made the effort to say something that it would carry some more weight with Yoza besides me just saying something that is obligatory. I DO NOT want anything to sound obligatory. When I tell her something, I mean it. It is never a “meh” situation for me because either I meant it or I did not say anything. Yoza takes my silence as a punishment when I am typically a quiet person by nature, even though my post lengths my say otherwise. There has got to be a balance between the amount of words Yoza needs to feed on and the amount of spoken words I am capable of giving. I just need to find it.

“People like to be acknowledged and validated!”-I could not agree more. I just need to find the proper means of doing so and REMEMBER TO DO IT! Holy crap I cannot remember to say or do something to validate what Yoza, or anybody in my life, has done. So she, and my kids, suffer from my terrible memory. Is there any tips or tricks to doing so? Apps for the phone? Anything?

“lk’s persecutive is her reality.”-This. This hit me like a ton of bricks. Never before have I heard something like this put into words. I have always lived under the assumption that reality is reality and I work in a very black and white world in what I do and I have a severe distaste for gray areas. That line from MythBusters makes more sense now “I reject your reality and substitute my own.” I always thought it was a joke but hearing it put in the words you did, I can see where it is not a joke but a truth. I see now that I am always trying to force my reality on Yoza and that is not the right thing to be doing. I just assumed reality was reality and could not be changed…it never occurred to me that her perception of reality would also cause the two of us to have two distorted realities when compared to each other. I am going to have to do some thinking on this subject matter and it will be a good discussion for downtime.

Mr Fox and Masterdym; you two have been a lot of help not only in the conversation but in our other readings, research, and chat. I really appreciate the input and my Yoza really appreciates both of the effort that your subs make to help. I dont know how much of what goes on the the subMrs side comes into conversation in your daily lives but it comes up frequently in ours and I know that my Yoza has gotten a lot of help and encouragement just as I have. It does not go unappreciated and I thank you for it!

[husdom]

GrizzledYeti,

The man of little words seems to have a lot to say. You may say much more than you believe that you actually do.

We are all communicating whether we are speaking or not. Walk down the street and look at the man on the other side. What is he communicating to you? Is he strong, weak, happy or sad? Without speaking a single word he is expressing himself in some manner. We may not interpret or judge his true feelings or expression correctly but we have our own reality based on what we see and assume. When we aren’t speaking words we are still communicating to everyone around us. Consider what other people may see or interpret about us. Do we smile or nod? Look grim and keep our eyes downward? Whatever we are doing we are sending signals that others will interpret on their own and form their opinions or set their reality from.

You had said “I also don’t need to say things to her in order to please or feed her that I don’t feel are authentic or genuine.” I feel the same. How did you discuss that with lk in order to let her know that? I really don’t want to crush Yoza.

I steer away from negativity as much as possible in my life. I would make every effort to not crush lk with anything that I would say. The genuine authentic feeding that I do is all positive. And I was trying to express that a lot of what feeds lk isn’t me telling her how wonderful everything is but rather that I simply acknowledge and validate what is happening or has happened. Most woman don’t necessarily want us men to fix everything for them. Although most of the time when our women tell us about their difficulties and challenges we just want to fix it for them. This makes perfect sense to us, resolve it and eliminate it. It often takes less time and less effort to do this. That is how we are wired. However, what many woman really want is to be listened to and heard, acknowledged and validated. I also have another reminder on my phone that says, “lk is to be listened to and heard.” I am not making it up about all of the reminders…

I am not talking about brutal honesty when I am genuine with lk, rather I am talking about finding the positive things that I can say along with simply listening to her and acknowledging her. That would look like, ‘I can understand why you feel that I am spending too much time working on the trailer.’ That would change everything in her eyes I would imagine. Or, ‘It makes perfect sense that you may feel that the trailer is more important to me than you are.’ And then consider following it with why you are so focused and dedicated to working on the trailer. ‘I have been working hard to get the trailer finished because I know how important the trailer is to you.’ I know the trailer isn’t really an issue but I could use it in the instance for an example. But now you have eliminated any negative feelings or thoughts that she had in her mind regarding your time and energy.

Yoza takes my silence as a punishment

The most valuable insight that you could have about your precious Yoza.

Consider this as well. Imagine the effort it takes to change someone else. Many would argue that your chances of success while trying to change someone else are limited at best. Now considering that challenge, how easy would it be to change yourself?

There has got to be a balance between the amount of words Yoza needs to feed on and the amount of spoken words I am capable of giving

You are looking for balance here and I couldn’t agree more. But from your own admission I believe that the balance may come from your being more aware of your silence. It doesnt take communication. You don’t have to write a poem or speak for ten minutes. Oftentimes a simple good girl to lk says it all.

“lk’s persecutive is her reality.”

It has taken me many years, mentor and coaching classes, a really patient submissive and one D/s journey to figure this detail out. I wish that someone would have just told me. But I don’t know if I would have been able to truly understand it without all of the rest of the knowledge.

I have said a thousand times in my past, ‘the facts are the facts’, and believed it. I still do believe it. But now I realize that everyone will interpret the same facts a little differently. When to me there is no gray area involved.

Best wishes,

Mr Fox

[husdom]

A few minutes after responding this popped up on my computer screen…

[x-kmunik8d]

“lk’s persecutive is her reality.”-This. This hit me like a ton of bricks. Never before have I heard something like this put into words. I have always lived under the assumption that reality is reality and I work in a very black and white world in what I do and I have a severe distaste for gray areas. That line from MythBusters makes more sense now “I reject your reality and substitute my own.” I always thought it was a joke but hearing it put in the words you did, I can see where it is not a joke but a truth. I see now that I am always trying to force my reality on Yoza and that is not the right thing to be doing. I just assumed reality was reality and could not be changed…it never occurred to me that her perception of reality would also cause the two of us to have two distorted realities when compared to each other. I am going to have to do some thinking on this subject matter and it will be a good discussion for downtime.

I wanted to take a minute and help flesh out these thoughts in a way that may bring additional clarity.

In my world, I recognize three primary “truths” or “truth methodologies”. They are as follows:

1. Subjective truth
2. Objective Truth
3. Absolute Truth

It is important to know that these tend to operate in a heirarchy.

When in pursuit of truth, the ultimate goal is to arrive at #3, or the “factual truth”.

Subjective truth can be best described as “Belief”. What you believe is your truth. Most organized religions are based completely around the basis of subjective truth. One must have “faith” in the existence of God for the tenets of religion to have any basis in your reality.

Objective truth is best described as “Observational Truth”. What you see is what you get. Objective truth leads to theories such as the “flat earth” theory of old.

Lastly there is Absolute truth. Out there, somewhere, the truth lives. It is what it is, and cannot be anything other than what it is. It is the actual facts of the matter.

They are tiered because as you can see, the first does not have to be based on any facts at all. if you believe it to be the truth, then it is YOUR truth. Objective truth is a more accurate picture of reality, as it is based on direct observation of reality, which reveals facts to you via observation, but may not describe the whole picture. The scientific method seeks to take observational truth, and verify it as absolute truth.

Your view of reality as black and white is a demonstration of your belief that your view of reality is absolute reality. That there can be no other way than that which you are observing and living. However, you are a human, and perfectly capable of error. I would like to challenge you to consider that you are living within a mixture of observational and subjective reality; that there can be, and there is more to what your living than what you are currently believing as your truth.

The current truth is that you and your Yoza hold differing views regarding reality, and therein lies the problem. Altering ones mindset to one of being the observer, with the knowledge that you hold very little in terms of absolute truth, is a great step towards understanding the problem.

My belief is that when one becomes aware of just how little one really knows of absolute reality, and accepts that they are just an observer of truth, (accepting how little one actually knows) it is a step towards self enlightenment.

Being capable of seeing others from their own perspectives is a very profound and humbling experience.

I would like to suggest that by altering your view on your perceptions of your reality, that you will begin to see more, and understand more of how we as humans operate in this reality of ours.

A great example of how reality is manipulated via subjectivism is modern day propaganda. It feeds people misinformation with the goal of changing ones belief system. Modern day science has been corrupted in much the same way. People living within their own subjective worlds are fed information from “Authorities”, who are elected via “consensus”. This information becomes the “consensus view” and therefore is accepted as truth. However, the entire process is subjective, and holds ZERO value from an observational or absolute perspective.

Asking your own questions, and seeking your own answers will most times reveal the logical fallacies within subjective viewpoints, as they are mostly only backed up with emotional appeals and ad-hominem attacks on those who challenge the consensus view.

I try to maintain a very open mind at all times, and recognize my entire reality could be shifted with new information at any time. This makes it easy to spot when others are not operating within the spirit of absolute truth, as they are prone to forming judgements or conclusions that they then hold as absolute truth, without evidence to back it up. They are reluctant to let go of these beliefs because their ego prevents them from admitting they are wrong.

I hope this helps a bit.

Masterdym

[husdom]

Dym,

I wanted to take a minute and help flesh out these thoughts in a way that may bring additional clarity.

I cant imagine the complicated or detailed version… lol

Best wishes,

Mr Fox

[domsalot]

Great insight and wisdom put to words.

As to the OP, in terms of words, in a business environment, they are only as worthy, as the person giving them, much like a warranty. In a personal relationship…words mean everything, especially in a marriage, more so in a D/s relationship. To a submissive, they need to see, hear and feel you on every level.

Encourage, when deserved, discipline when needed, be consistent in your expectations, both verbally and in deed. Lead well, and they will follow that lead. They want it, they need it, and they desire it. You be a great Dom, they will make you better.

[grizzledyeti]

Holy cow there is a lot to process here! I will have to say Mr. Fox that I can talk a lot about subjects that I am passionate about and mean a lot to me, and my loving bride is no exception. (I will make note that there is not a forum here that is a general forum to talk about random stuff. Yoza says find that elsewhere but I think it would give me a better understanding of who is on the other side of the screen if I am able to discuss general topics-but leave out politics and religion!)

The advice given on validation versus fixing, direction, compliments, etc. is well taken. I think that it may be part of my perspective in that I tend to think Yoza is fishing for compliments whereas she is really looking for validation of her hard work and efforts. Just recognizing what she does on a daily basis will probably go far and I will have to redouble my efforts in finding ways to verbalize my thoughts and feelings. I just don’t want it to sound harsh, uncaring, forced, or the worst case for me which would be brutal honesty. As I would have to assume in most people, I think I am going to find it extremely difficult to change myself whether it be my thoughts, actions, or feelings but it needs to be done either way if I am to have any hope of positive progress.

Masterdym-As far as realities go, I believe you are correct that I am stuck somewhere in the middle of different tiers of realities. My difficulty is, and it may be the same with other Doms, is that Yoza stays in primarily the subjective reality and rarely moves on from there. It can be difficult because she listens to a conversation or watches actions and processes it based on how she feels at the time with little regard of the actual words said or what was really done and why. It is a frustration for me and my kids as my oldest two are now starting to have conversations with Yoza and what was said and what she heard are two totally different conversations. I even have my kids look at my with huge eyes when she starts talking about something earlier in the day that we all witnessed but it was a totally different scenario than what she describes and they are afraid to correct her or say anything. Yoza has no clue that she does it nor is it a subject that is easily discussed because it will always feel like an attack no matter what words I use or how softly I put it. Her perspective/reality is extremely subjective and it is really difficult for me to cope with with my black and white versions.

Also Masterdym, I think we may be of similar minds when it comes to the current status of the sciences, consensus, and modern day constant propaganda. That is another subject all together but not really easily discussed in the current structure. It might be on the paid end? Not sure if that is available there.

Just the sheer amount of changing that I have to do to the core of my person is daunting. Totally worth it for Yoza but a daunting task none the less. I appreciate all of the information that you gentlemen have given me and I have to assume that this is not an over night task but years of cultivating yourself personally along with your relationship with your sub. Good news is that the bedroom end of it does really have its rewards coupled with the lack of negativity in the relationship it only makes this dynamic better and better.

[her-man_]

There is a lot talked about here that is of great value. Thank you gentleman for that. The only thing I might add is a book that I read a few years ago called [Redacted due to ToS violation]. It speaks on the basis that people feel loved by one or more of the languages being used. They are Physical touch, Quality Time, Gift Giving, Acts Of Service, and Words of Affirmation.

Physical Touch: Not to be confused with sexual touch. Things like massages, cuddling, hugs, close proximity to another, having their scalp scratch or massaged or just have fingers being ran through their hair. Or if you have sons or daughters who like to rough house or wrestle.

Quality Time: any time being spent one on one, or devoted time. Playing games, walks, talking…. devoted time for that person.

Gift Giving: someone giving you something. It is usually the thought process in the selection of a gift more than the gift itself.

Acts of Service: doing things for them that they normally would have to do themselves. This is my wife’s. Chores she normally does, I try to do them occasionally, so she can do something else, hopefully relax or prepare for me. Either way it takes something off her plate. This has always been difficult for me, but I keep trying.

Words of Affirmation: telling her that you value her in whatever she is doing or has done. Hearing words in acknowledgment that she has done a great job or you appreciate that she has done it.

I bring these up because for me it helped me learn how to love the individual at their level and subsequently how to FEEL loved. I have three sons and they all FEEL loved differently. One is physical touch, another is quality time and the third is words of Affirmation. So understanding this helps me show them that I appreciate and love them in their own way.

It sounds like Words of Affirmation might be your wife’s love language and how she FEELS loved. I know you said words are tough for you. So you have a hard time affirming her. I get that. My wife’s is acts of service. I found out that delegating those chores to the boys doesn’t count. So I now do them (when I think about them, which is not very often) which thinking about them is difficult for me.

I hope this helps. I know it helped me.

EDIT: Her Man, please read the ToS.

[x-kmunik8d]

My difficulty is, and it may be the same with other Doms, is that Yoza stays in primarily the subjective reality and rarely moves on from there. It can be difficult because she listens to a conversation or watches actions and processes it based on how she feels at the time with little regard of the actual words said or what was really done and why. It is a frustration for me and my kids as my oldest two are now starting to have conversations with Yoza

I presume that your two oldest kids are young men, based on your above description.

Also, what Im about to talk about is not absolute. There are always exceptions. Take of this what works, and discard the rest.

I would like to suggest that “generally” speaking, women’s preferred reality is subjective. It is the world of feelings, and women “love” feelings. I believe they prefer to rationalize everything, even objective truths, through their subjective lens of reality. This can lead to irrational thoughts and behaviors because their views have been processed through their emotional lens, rather than their objective, or logical lens.

I say preferred, because they CAN process information differently, objectively, and rationally, it just doesnt come to many women as naturally as it does for men.

Men on the other hand prefer to live within objective reality, using logical reasoning over emotional reasoning. This discrepancy has long led to mystical misunderstandings between the sexes. Think “Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus”

In previous writings, I have tried to explain “masculine” and “feminine” energies, and I feel that much of the context behind these previous descriptions are due to the differences in the mental processing described above. I would tend to describe subjective reasoning as “feminine” and objective reasoning as “masculine” in terms of expression.

The more responsibility a woman takes in life in pursuits such as professional work, the more time she must spend thinking objectively and the less time subjectively. If her man is not stepping up and taking responsibility for his life fully, she will be forced to adapt and pick up the extra responsibilities where he is not, forcing her further into the world of objective reasoning.

It doesnt serve this conversation by going into the reasons why, (we can chat about that later if you wish) but only that you accept her preferred way of thinking, and do not expect her (trying to force, or berate her for not doing so) to spend all of her time trying to focus on objective reasoning exercises. (That is your job).

Encouraging her submission by further taking over responsibilities that require objective processing frees her to fall back into the subjective world of feelings and emotions, living in the moment, which in my opinion, is when women shine the brightest, as they are free to fully express their feminine energies the way that nature intended.